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Newly released FBI tapes show white supremacist members of ‘The Base’ plotting terror attacks

November 4, 2021 by WDNY Radio

(RICHMOND, Va.) — For a month, FBI agents listened in as two members of a white supremacist group discussed their sinister plans: a plot to use a pro-gun rights rally in Richmond, Virginia, to engage in mass murder and attacks on critical infrastructure, which they believed would mark the start of a racial civil war.

Patrik Mathews, a former Canadian Army reservist illegally in the U.S., and Brian Lemley, a Maryland resident and self-described white nationalist, fantasized about the brutal murders they’d soon carry out against law enforcement and Black people, all with the goal of bringing about the “Boogaloo,” or the collapse of the U.S. government in order to prop up a white ethno-state, according to recordings of the pair’s discussions.

“We need to go back to the days of … decimating Blacks and getting rid of them where they stand,” Mathews said in one recording. “If you see a bunch of Blacks sitting on some corner you f***ing shoot them.”

“I need to claim my first victim,” Lemley said in another recording. “It’s just that we can’t live with ourselves if we don’t get somebody’s blood on our hands.”

The two men were each sentenced in late October to nine years in prison, and ABC News has now obtained newly released audio from the FBI’s secret recording of Mathews and Lemley at their Delaware residence in late 2019.

The tapes offer a chilling look into the private plotting of the two members of “The Base,” a white supremacist extremist group that the FBI says has, since 2018, recruited members both in the U.S. and abroad through a combination of online chat rooms, private meetings, and military-style training camps. In their plea agreements and at sentencing, Mathews and Lemley both acknowledged their membership in the group.

After the two men were arrested in January 2020, just days before the Richmond rally was set to take place, law enforcement found tactical gear, 1,500 rounds of ammunition, and packed cases of food and supplies in their residence.

In the course of their investigation they also found that Lemley and Mathews had both attended military-style training camps with other members of The Base, and had built a functioning assault rifle that they tested out at a gun range in Maryland.

The recordings captured by the FBI included Mathews and Lemley discussing potential acts of terror they could carry out around the Richmond rally that would lead authorities and, eventually, the U.S. government, to capitulate to the chaos and bloodshed taking place.

“You wanna create f***ing some instability while the Virginia situation is happening, make other things happen,” Mathews said. “Derail some rail lines … shut down the highways … shut down the rest of the roads … kick off the economic collapse of the U.S. within a week after the [Boogaloo] starts.”

“I mean, even if we don’t win, I would still be satisfied with a defeat of the system … and whatever was to come in its place would be preferable than what there is now,” Lemley said. “And if it’s not us, then you know what, we still did what we had to do.”

Prior to their sentencing, Mathews and Lemley had pleaded guilty to firearms and immigration violation-related charges. At their Oct. 28 sentencing hearing, U.S. district judge Theodore Chuang went above the sentencing guidelines in applying a terrorism enhancement to each charge, sentencing both men to nine years in federal prison.

FBI Director Christopher Wray testified earlier this year that the number of domestic terrorism investigations into white supremacist individuals and groups has tripled since he joined the bureau in 2017.

2 dead after shootout between alleged drug gangs near Cancun resorts

November 4, 2021 by WDNY Radio

(PUERTO MORELOS, Mexico) — Two people are dead after a shooting involving alleged drug gangs in a Mexico resort zone Thursday afternoon, authorities said.

The shooting occurred on a beach in Puerto Morelos, south of Cancun, during a confrontation between alleged members of rival groups of drug dealers, according to a statement from the Quintana Roo Attorney General’s Office. Two of the alleged gang members died, and there were no additional injuries, the office said. Armed suspects escaped in a stolen motorboat, authorities said.

The stretch of beach is near two resorts, and the shooting sent vacationers running to their hotel rooms.

An American vacationing in Cancun confirmed to ABC News that he heard shots fired while at the Hyatt Ziva Hotel in Puerto Morelos.

Shortly after 2 p.m. local time, Jim Wildermuth, of Atlanta, said he was at the pool outside his room with other guests when they heard “cracks.”

“We kind of looked at each other funny,” Wildermuth said.

They then ran up to their rooms and were told to stay there because there was an active shooter on the property, according to Wildermuth, who said he saw military personnel directing people in front of the hotel.

A Hyatt spokesperson said in a statement to ABC News that they are “aware of a developing situation at Hyatt Ziva Riviera Cancun.”

“We understand the hotel team immediately engaged local authorities who are on the scene investigating the situation,” the company said, adding that it is “taking steps in an effort to ensure the safety of guests and colleagues.”

Guests at the hotel were deemed safe after the shooting, authorities said.

A spokesperson for the Azul Beach Resort Riviera Cancun, which is located near the Hyatt Ziva Cancun, told ABC News it has no comment at this time.

The shooting comes nearly two weeks after two female tourists were killed during an apparent drug gang shootout in the Mexico resort destination of Tulum. Three tourists were wounded in the Oct. 23 shooting.

ABC News’ Josh Margolin and Christine Theodorou contributed to this report.

This is a developing story. Please check back for updates.

DOJ sues Texas over restrictive voting law

November 4, 2021 by WDNY Radio

(WASHINGTON) — The Justice Department announced Thursday it has sued the State of Texas over its restrictive voting law that went into effect in September.

The complaint argues SB1 violates Section 208 of the Voting Rights Act “by improperly restricting what assistance in the polling booth voters who have a disability or are unable to read or write can receive.”

SB1 affects voters who have a disability by preventing those who assist them from providing help like answering questions on their behalf, confirming voters with visual impairments have properly marked their ballots and responding to any requests they might have about certain ballot translations.

The complaint also accuses the law of violating Section 101 of the Civil Rights Act “by requiring rejection of mail ballots and mail ballot request forms because of certain paperwork errors or omissions that are not material to establishing a voter’s eligibility to cast a ballot.”

The complaint filed in civil court asks a judge to prohibit Texas from enforcing the identified provisions in the law.

The DOJ similarly sued Georgia in June, alleging provisions in its new voting law violated Section 2 of the Civil Rights Act.

Manhattan District Attorney Cy Vance convenes new special grand jury to investigate Trump Organization: Sources

November 4, 2021 by WDNY Radio

(NEW YORK) — Manhattan District Attorney Cy Vance has convened a new special grand jury to hear evidence in the investigation of former President Donald Trump and his eponymous company, sources familiar with the matter told ABC News.

The new grand jury was convened as the time limit on the original special grand jury is about to expire.

The new six-month special grand jury allows the case to continue beyond Vance’s tenure if needed. He leaves office in early January, when District Attorney-elect Alvin Bragg takes office. In a historic victory, Bragg was elected as Manhattan’s first Black district attorney on Tuesday.

News of the grand jury was first reported by The Washington Post.

The initial grand jury returned an indictment in June against the Trump Organization and its long-serving chief financial officer Allan Weisselberg. Both have pleaded not guilty.

The first indictments returned in the case involved corporate benefits for which, allegedly, no taxes were paid.

“During the operation of the scheme, the defendants arranged for Weisselberg to receive indirect employee compensation from the Trump Organization in the approximate amount of $1.76 million … in ways that enabled the corporate defendants to avoid reporting it to the tax authorities,” the indictment said.

The Manhattan District Attorney’s Office, along with New York Attorney General Letitia James, have also been investigating whether Trump valued his holdings one way when seeking loans and a different way when preparing taxes, manipulation alleged by Trump’s former attorney, Michael Cohen, in 2019 congressional testimony.

Neither the Vance nor James has commented. The Manhattan DA fought a battle for the former president’s tax returns that twice went to the U.S. Supreme Court.

Trump, who has not been charged, has denied wrongdoing and decried the investigation as political.

He told ABC News in July that Weisselberg is a “tremendous man and called the indictment a “disgrace” and “shameful.”

Navy fires top 3 leaders of submarine that struck uncharted sea mountain

November 4, 2021 by WDNY Radio

(WASHINGTON) — The Navy has fired the top three leaders who were aboard the attack submarine USS Connecticut when it struck an uncharted sea mountain in the Pacific Ocean in early October.

The commander of the Navy’s Seventh Fleet relieved the commanding officer of the submarine, Cmdr. Cameron Aljilani, the executive officer, Lt. Cmdr. Patrick Cashin, and the top enlisted sailor, Master Chief Sonar Technician Cory Rodgers, “due to loss of confidence,” according to a Navy statement.

Though the vessel struck an uncharted sea mountain, Vice Adm. Karl Thomas, commander of Seventh Fleet, determined that the incident could have been prevented.

“Sound judgement, prudent decision-making and adherence to required procedures in navigation planning, watch team execution and risk management could have prevented the incident,” according to the statement.

The three who were fired will be replaced by a new leadership team while the submarine remains in Guam before it makes its way to Bremerton, Washington, for repairs to the hull and interior.

On Oct. 2, the Seawolf-class fast-attack submarine struck an unknown object while underwater, but the Navy did not publicly disclose the incident until after the vessel was close to arriving at the naval base in Guam, where a damage assessment would be made.

A Navy official said at the time that two sailors had suffered moderate injuries and were treated aboard the vessel. Other sailors suffered bumps, bruises and lacerations. There was no damage to the submarine’s nuclear reactor.

While the Navy would not say where the submarine had been operating, China has claimed it was in the South China Sea, where China has made territorial claims not accepted by the United States and the international community.

Last week, a Navy investigation into the incident determined that the submarine had struck an uncharted sea mountain and that the Seventh Fleet commander would determine whether accountability actions might be appropriate.

At Afghanistan’s northern border, worries about what comes next

November 4, 2021 by WDNY Radio

(RUZVAT, Tajikistan) — In many places along Tajikistan’s border with Afghanistan, the countries are separated by just a few yards of water — the narrow Panj River.

There are no walls or fences, and, standing on the Tajikistan side, northern Afghanistan is so close that as ABC reporters looked across last week, Taliban fighters waved back at them.

The Taliban have taken control of the Afghan side of the border, something they were unable to achieve even when they ruled there 20 years ago. Now their white flags can be seen flying in the villages perched along the river as it winds between two towering walls of mountains.

The border, which runs through the Pamir Mountains, is a new fault line in a new reality. It’s a place that poses questions to Afghanistan’s neighbors, including regional powers like Russia and China, about what a Taliban-controlled Afghanistan will mean.

There are fears that instability could spread from Afghanistan to surrounding countries. Terrorist groups including ISIS and Al-Qaeda have footholds in northern Afghanistan, and Tajikistan is already a major drugs route. And as a catastrophic humanitarian crisis in Afghanistan threatens, so does a potential refugee exodus.

So where does that leave Tajikistan?

The nearly 850-mile-long border is now closed. As the Taliban advanced this summer, groups of Afghans, mostly government soldiers, began to flee across the border. Tajikistan’s government reacted by sending 20,000 troops to the area.

The sealed border has cut off the flow of refugees. The Taliban are also stopping people, according to Afghans who’ve tried to cross.

ABC News reporters visited a stretch of border in the Darvoz region last week. To enter, foreigners must have special permission and pass through three checkpoints. But beyond that, the only visible security force was an occasional three-man patrol of young conscripts.

Locals said things have been calm since the Taliban took over, with the sound of shooting on the other side stopping. Life has been relatively unchanged, they said, except Tajik security service agents now lived in some villages. The three nearby bridges spanning the river all have been closed.

Tajikistan is the only one of Afghanistan’s neighbors to adopt an openly hostile attitude toward the Taliban since their takeover. Nearly half of Afghanistan’s population are ethnically Tajiks, and in the 1990s, Tajikistan’s government supported the anti-Taliban resistance. This time, Tajikistan has again become a sanctuary for resistance leaders.

Ahmad Massoud, the son of the legendary mujahideen commander Ahmad Shah Massoud and leader of the National Resistance Front of Afghanistan, is in Tajikistan, his spokesman said this week, seeking to drum up international support.

But unlike the last time, the resistance has almost no holdouts in Afghanistan, and Tajikistan’s government has shown little appetite for assisting beyond offering shelter.

Before Kabul fell, Tajikistan said it could take in 100,000 Afghan refugees, but now it’s closed to new entries. Several thousand Afghans did manage to arrive, including 160 U.S.-trained Afghan Air Force Pilots, who are now trapped waiting evacuation.

Those who did reach Tajikistan are now struggling, unable to find work or feed themselves in one of the world’s poorest countries. Tamim Talash, a former official at Afghanistan’s election commission, is now stranded there with his wife and 4-month old daughter.

“We have a lot of problems,” Talash said. “I am jobless now.”

Talash, who said the Taliban twice tried to kill him, has applied for asylum in the U.S. but heard nothing so far.

“I don’t know how to find out any person or any organization to help us,” he added.

The upheaval in Afghanistan has also boosted Russia’s role in the region, where it already retains a strong grip on former Soviet colonies. Worried about potential terrorists in those countries, Russia has been moving to bolster them.

Tajikistan’s capital, Dushanbe, already is home to Russia’s 201st Military Base, the largest it has anywhere in the world outside Russia.

Since the summer, Russia has sent to Tajikistan military equipment and money to construct new border posts and re-equip military forces. The countries have staged large joint military exercises. In October, Russia took journalists to watch the culminating display of scheduled exercises organized by the Collective Security Treaty Organization, a military alliance of former Soviet countries.

Russian troops took part alongside those from Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, Kazakhstan, Belarus and others at a firing range about 15 miles from Afghanistan. The display, involving around 2,000 troops, simulated a response to an imagined attempt by an Islamist group that had crossed into Tajikistan and declared it an Islamic state.

But Moscow also is building a working relationship with the Taliban. Last month, it hosted the Taliban in Moscow for talks with regional countries, chaired by Russia’s foreign minister, Sergey Lavrov.

Russia has asked for, and received, public guarantees from the Taliban that it will not destabilize Central Asian countries like Tajikistan or allow Afghanistan to be used as a launchpad for international terrorism again.

“Just as we want positive relations with others, we also seek positive relations,” Amir Khan Muttaqi, the Taliban’s acting foreign minister, told reporters through a translator during the Moscow talks. “We remain committed to our commitments that the soil of Afghanistan will not be used to threaten the security of other nations.”

Text from McDonald’s CEO appears to blame parents of Jaslyn Adams and Adam Toledo for their deaths

November 4, 2021 by WDNY Radio

(CHICAGO) — Protests erupted at McDonald’s headquarters in Chicago this week after a text exchange between the fast food giant’s chief executive and Mayor Lori Lightfoot seemed to blame the parents of two children who were recently shot to death in the city.

Lightfoot had visited McDonald’s headquarters and met with CEO Chris Kempczinski in April, the day after the fatal shooting of 7-year-old Jaslyn Adams, who died in a hail of bullets fired into her family’s car that was in a McDonald’s drive-thru lane. The child’s death came as the city was still mourning and outraged over the fatal shooting of 13-year-old Adam Toledo by a police officer.

In a text exchange recently made public, Kempczinski wrote to Lightfoot: “With both, the parents failed those kids, which I know is something you can’t say. Even harder to fix,” according to ABC Chicago station WLS-TV.

The comment sparked immediate backlash and accusations of racism and victim blaming.

Images shared to social media by the labor advocacy group Fight for 15 Chicago, which helped organize a protest on Wednesday, showed crowds of protestors descending on McDonald’s headquarters. Many of those marching were children.

“As the leader of the largest fast food corporation, Mr. Kempczinski has a responsibility to do much better for Black and Brown communities than add on to racist stereotypes,” Fight for 15 Chicago said in a Tweet.

Kempczinski acknowledged the text exchange in a note sent to McDonald’s U.S. corporate employees, which was viewed by ABC News.

“In the text exchange, I thanked Mayor Lightfoot for the visit and reflected on our conversation about the recent tragedies, commenting that ‘the parents failed those kids,'” the CEO wrote. “When I wrote this, I was thinking through my lens as a parent and reacted viscerally.”

“But I have not walked in the shoes of Adam’s or Jaslyn’s family and so many others who are facing a very different reality,” Kempczinski added. “Not taking the time to think about this from their viewpoint was wrong, and lacked the empathy and compassion I feel for these families. This is a lesson that I will carry with me.”

Kempczinksi lamented the “senseless surge in gun violence that is affecting so many children,” adding that, “it is also clear to me that everyone has a role to play.”

“Quite simply, it is on all of us to do better for the children of our communities,” the CEO stated, saying he was committed to working with civic leaders and elected officials to “understand what that means for McDonald’s.”

Lightfoot did not immediately respond to ABC News’ request for comment Thursday, but a spokesperson for the mayor told told WLS-TV: “Victim shaming has no place in this conversation.”

Pelosi tells Democratic leaders she wants House votes on infrastructure bills this week

November 4, 2021 by WDNY Radio

(WASHINGTON) — As House Democrats scramble to move forward with President Joe Biden’s landmark infrastructure and social spending legislation, Speaker Nancy Pelosi on Thursday told her deputies behind closed doors that she wants votes on the bills this week — but publicly she declined to commit to any specific timetable.

“I’ll let you know as soon as I wish to,” Pelosi told reporters during her weekly news conference when asked about scheduling what’s become an elusive target for her party.

Congressional Democrats are under new pressure to pass the legislation following Tuesday’s disappointing election results and Biden telling reporters on Wednesday his message to them was: “Get it on my desk.”

“We have to have the votes,” Pelosi said Thursday, indicating her leadership team is still working the numbers behind the scenes.

Pelosi said she was “very unhappy” about missing her previous Oct. 31 deadline for passing the already Senate-passed bipartisan infrastructure bill, stalled as progressives held their votes to continue negotiations on a larger social spending package.

“Did you see the whip count?” Pelosi asked reporters on Thursday. “Because I’ll tell you something about Mr. Clyburn, he keeps it close to the vest.”

Asked if it were possible that she would put only the bipartisan infrastructure bill — or “BIF” — on the floor if the social spending plan or “Build Back Better” bill isn’t ready, Pelosi told reporters: “No.”

“We’re going to pass both bills, but in order to do so we have to have the votes for both bills, and that’s where we are,” she added.

Notably, Pelosi says she does not call votes in the House if she knows she doesn’t have the votes to win.

In an earlier closed-door meeting, Pelosi told her deputies that if the votes are there, they intend to vote on the social spending bill as soon as Thursday night, with votes on the bipartisan infrastructure plan planned for Friday, sources familiar confirmed to ABC News.

“Hopefully we’ll see if we have the votes for BBB tonight and BIF tomorrow morning,” she said, according to a source familiar with the matter.

But there are still several loose ends with the larger social spending or “Build Back Better” package Democrats plan to pass through reconciliation, a process not requiring Republican support but would need all Democratic votes in the Senate — where its fate is unclear with Sen. Joe Manchin, D-W.Va., having objected to a late addition.

Pelosi announced on Wednesday that Democrats were adding four weeks of paid family and medical leave back to the social spending package, to the praise of progressives, but a move which Manchin said he doesn’t support, raising concerns with the cost.

ABC News Congressional Correspondent Rachel Scott asked Pelosi what her message is to Manchin, who says he supports paid family leave but not in this package, and Pelosi took an optimistic tone.

“Well, I don’t make a habit of talking to Senator Manchin on the TV. We’re friends. I respect him. He’s a good person. He’s agreed to so much that is in the bill,” Pelosi responded.

“With all the respect in the world for the point of view he represents, I disagree,” she said of his position. “I think that this is appropriate for this legislation. It fits very comfortably with childcare, health care, home care, family medical need, and it has the full support of our caucus.”

Asked by reporters if House Democrats’ inability to pass the legislation ahead of Tuesday’s governor race in Virginia impacted that loss for Democrats, Pelosi said she would have to wait and see the data.

“But I do think as the American people learn more about what we are doing in this legislation for families, for children, for women in the workforce, to save our planet, the rest, it will be very positive. You can’t deny that it would be very positive,” she said. “There’s no question if we the more results we can produce in a way that is people understand in their lives, the better it is,” she added.

Democratic leaders are actively whipping behind the scenes to see if the votes are there and argue to moderates that the social spending plan, expected to cost about $1.75 trillion, will be fully paid for.

The Joint Committee on Taxation said in its latest analysis released Thursday that the new tax provisions included in the social spending plan would raise nearly $1.5 trillion over 10 years — meaning the plan nearly meets Democrats’ mark.

“It’s very solid,” Pelosi told reporters at her weekly press conference, noting that the JCT is an “objective” body providing analysis.

JCT’s latest score does not include revenue raised by providing the IRS more money for enforcement or savings from prescription drug pricing changes since those provisions were added in just the last two days.

House Ways and Means Committee Chairman Richard Neal, D-Mass., also told reporters the JCT score indicates that the bill will be fully paid for when the tax increase, IRS and drug pricing provisions are all taken into account.

Feds charge Russian national who worked on Steele dossier with lying to FBI

November 4, 2021 by WDNY Radio

(WASHINGTON) — A researcher who worked with Christopher Steele in assembling Steele’s controversial dossier that contained explosive and unproven claims about former President Donald Trump has been arrested on charges stemming from the special counsel’s investigation of the Russia probe, according to an indictment made public Thursday.

Igor Danchenko, a Russian national living in the U.S., has previously defended his role in gathering information that Steele used in his dossier, including the salacious claim that Russian officials may have had a videotape of Trump watching prostitutes in a hotel room during a 2013 trip to Moscow. Trump has vehemently denied the claim and no evidence has surfaced to support the allegation.

Danchenko has been charged with five separate counts of making false statements to the FBI in interviews where he discussed how he obtained information that he later provided to Steele for inclusion in the dossier.

In the indictment handed down by a federal grand jury and signed by Special counsel John Durham, Danchenko is accused of falsely telling the FBI he had never communicated with an unidentified U.S.-based individual “who was a long-time participant in Democratic Party Politics” about any allegations included in the dossier — whereas the indictment says Danchenko had actually sourced one or more of the allegations to that individual.

The indictment also accuses Danchenko of lying when he told the FBI that he had received an anonymous call in July 2016 from a citizen who he believed to be president of the Russian-American Chamber of Commerce, and who provided him information about possible Trump-Russia ties that Danchenko later passed along to Steele. The indictment alleges that “as he well knew, [Danchenko] never spoke” with the president of the Russian-American Chamber of Commerce, and he was lying when he suggested otherwise to the FBI.

The indictment says Danchenko’s lies were material to his interviews with the FBI because their investigation of the Trump campaign “relied in large part” on the Steele dossier to obtain FISA warrants against former Trump adviser Carter Page, and that “the FBI ultimately devoted substantial resources attempting to investigate and corroborate the allegations contained” in the dossier.

The dossier, originally compiled as opposition research against Trump’s presidential candidacy, created an international scandal when it was published by BuzzFeed News 10 days before Trump was sworn into office.

Danchenko was taken into custody Thursday. Details regarding the charges Danchenko is facing were not immediately available.

Last year former Attorney General William Barr declassified documents sent to Congress that showed Danchenko was previously the subject of a counterintelligence investigation examining whether he was an agent of Russia. Danchenko has denied such claims.

Barr also declassified a transcript of an interview Danchenko had with the FBI in January 2017, in which he said many of the most explosive claims he brought to Steele were based on rumors and hearsay.

An attorney for Danchenko did not immediately respond for a request for comment. Steele declined to comment to ABC News when asked for a response to Danchenko’s arrest.

Senate Republicans target Biden vaccine mandate Fauci supports

November 4, 2021 by WDNY Radio

(WASHINGTON) — With the nation’s top public health officials as their audience, Senate Republicans on Thursday aired complaints about a new wide-reaching vaccine mandate for large businesses being implemented by the Biden administration.

“I’m just telling you it’s a hard sell to tell people who have had COVID that they’re now under a mandate — a mandate by the federal government — to be vaccinated. I think you’ve got an extremely tough sell,” Sen. Richard Burr, the top Republican on the Senate Health Committee, told the heads of the Biden White House COVID response team, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Director Rochelle Walensky and chief medical adviser Dr. Anthony Fauci, in a hearing.

The new mandate, announced in September but finalized Thursday, will apply to nearly 100 million U.S. workers and require them to either get vaccinated or submit to weekly COVID tests. The mandate will take effect on Jan. 4, after the holidays.

Both Fauci and Walensky were supportive of the mandate, pointing to 745,000 American deaths and thousands more each week, the vast majority of which are among the unvaccinated.

Burr was one of several Republicans who made the case during the hearing that unvaccinated Americans who have had COVID-19 should be exempt from the new mandate because they would now have “natural” immunity to the virus, an argument made by business organizations that oppose the mandate.

While studies have shown that people still carry immune response to the virus after recovery, it’s not clear how long that immunity lasts and it doesn’t appear to be as robust as immunity from vaccination. One recent CDC study found that people with “natural” immunity through infection were five times more likely to develop COVID-19 compared to people who were fully vaccinated, something Wallensky and Fauci pointed out.

Still, Burr argued that health care professionals were already suffering from worker shortages and couldn’t afford to lose more people because they refused to comply with mandates. Under the mandate for health care workers, which applies to any place receiving federal funding through Medicare or Medicaid, workers are required to get vaccinated without an option to do weekly tests instead.

“You start doing this to people, Medicare, Medicaid providers, community health centers, we’re not going to have the people to surge,” Burr said, referring to surge responses to states that need more doctors and nurses when COVID cases spike.

He called the decision not to allow for “natural” immunity qualifiers “confusing.”

“There’s every reason to believe that people can look at this and say, ‘What the hell are you guys doing? What are you judging this based on?’ It’s not common sense and it’s certainly not science.”

Walensky said the data on how natural immunity lasts is “murkier” but the CDC can track with certainty how long vaccines work, and referenced the recent study showing more infections in people who have had COVID than in those who are vaccinated.

“CDC recommendations suggest that you have more both more durable and robust and known immune response if you are vaccinated after you’ve been previously infected, and those are our recommendation,” Walensky said.

Sen. Lisa Murkowski, a Republican from Alaska, also told the public health officials that she was worried about worker shortages.

“When we’re talking about vaccine and vaccine hesitancy, we need to be talking to those who are putting in place some of these standards that in my state are causing an extraordinary issue and problem within our workforce,” Murkowski said.

Both Fauci and Walensky defended the mandates, which the Biden administration hopes will stifle COVID cases that have disrupted everything from education systems to supply chain and the economy.

“We’ve had 745,000 deaths from this disease and we’re continuing to have about 75,000 cases every single day,” Walensky said.

“We know the most disruptive thing in our workforce is to have a COVID outbreak and to have workers in that workforce come down with COVID infection, severe disease, and in some cases death. Vaccination as we’ve seen, decreases your risk of infection by sixfold, decreases your risk of hospitalization and death by tenfold even during this delta surge. So there’s absolutely a public health priority to get people vaccinated and to continue the important prevention and mitigation strategies including masking to keep them safe,” she said.

Sen. Mitt Romney, a Utah Republican, asked Fauci, “If we do have a mandate, will it save lives? And is there an estimate of, of the number of lives that might be saved by virtue of having our private companies that have over 100 employees, either having their employees receive a vaccination or get a weekly test? If that occurs, will it save lives and you have an estimate of the number of lives that might save?”

Fauci said he did not have a model on hand, but had “a very firm and confident answer” to the first question.

“We know that vaccines absolutely save lives. And we know that mandates work,” he said.

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